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Spirit of Ma'at: "Ending the Cycle of Revenge" — Vol 3 November 2002 with Dr. Andrew Rigby by Julia Griffin
At some point, you catch on to forgiveness. You figure out that it's no longer about "ought to." ... It's about freeing yourself. The decision to rebuild Coventry Cathedral was taken the morning after its destruction. Not, in the vision of then-Provost Dick Howard, as an act of defiance, but as a sign of faith, trust, and hope for the future of the world. The new building was consecrated on May 26, 1962, its altar graced by a cross of nails taken from the old cathedral (photo at right is by Karl Griffiths-Fulton). We spoke with Dr. Andrew Rigby, director since Coventry's Centre for Study of Forgiveness and Reconciliation since its founding in 1999. Julia: What in your own background led you toward working in a university focused on world peace and forgiveness? Andrew: I have taught peace study for twenty years, so this has been the focus of much of my life. I've specialized in Israeli and Palestinian peace negotiation. Julia: Can you tell us how the bombing of Coventry Cathedral relates to the development of your Centre? Andrew: After it happened, the provost of the cathedral told everyone to banish thoughts of revenge. The city responded by building a new cathedral and dedicating it to reconciliation and forgiveness. To convey this spirit of reconciliation, Coventry made a connection, or "twinned," with other martyred cities throughout the world, like Dresden, Hiroshima, Stalingrad, and Warsaw. In this way, the City of Coventry has established a reputation for dedication to peace and reconciliation. There is a mythic energy to what occurred, and that seems to be linked to the University. Julia: How do you describe forgiveness? How does your idea of forgiveness differ from those of standard psychology or the church? Andrew: Personally, I suppose I endorse a more humanistic ideal of forgiveness. I think we need to focus on the relationship between the victim and perpetrator. I think that is an attitude your own country [America] could embrace or endorse right now. Julia: No, we are not a peace-loving nation right now. Andrew: For a man, it seems a little wimpy or humble to talk about forgiveness. When I came to the University, I said I could teach or research forgiveness but that I didn't necessarily believe in it. But I came to change my mind about that. At some point, I found out that forgiveness was not what I thought it was. I came to understand a funny thing about forgiveness: It's not the other person or what they did to you that is the problem. The problem, and the ironic thing, about hate and vengeance is that they can turn you into a reflection of what you hate! At some point, you catch on to forgiveness. You figure out that it's no longer about "ought to." We all know we "ought to" forgive, but forgiveness is larger than "ought to." It's about the monkey on your own back. The monkey, or lack of forgiveness, is what you are carrying around. You give up the monkey, and you go free. That doesn't teach you the personal steps for forgiveness. We've all got to find that out for ourselves. But you start to grow when you realize that it's not about "ought to." It's about freeing yourself. Forgiveness is emancipation. And when you begin to find freedom, you start to become yourself — there starts to be a sense of wholeness. Julia: What do you see as the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation? Andrew: Forgiveness means giving up your attachment to past bereavement. It is a creative act that allows openness toward the future. Reconciliation refers to actively participating with whoever was divided by enmity with you. The past must be forgiven if we want to move forward into a shared future. Julia: What do you recommend that parents teach to their children? How should we describe the world to them? How can we teach them peace? Andrew: Naturally, you teach your children to have inner strength and to apply that to whatever they see or experience. The morality in the home should be extended past the home. Children should be taught to question politicians, and not ever to give up the vision of world peace. Julia: What about pain? How you think people can transcend pain to come to forgiveness? Andrew: There is this issue about pain that it's universal, and usually a lot of people have had worse experiences than ours. For example, we might talk to someone from Cambodia and feel humbled by their suffering. We can't even imagine what it is like to have that experience. But we all experience unexpected bereavement, events that cause pain, that cost us. We all have to come to terms with pain. We have to forgive the cause. Forgiveness frees us. Some people easily let go of the past. Others remember the past sharply and have trouble freeing themselves from it. But either way, the past is still "there." We all have to come to terms with it. During a recent civil war, the warlords and youth committed terrible crimes to their own people. But after the war, the militia was re-accepted into the village. I found this unbelievable. But if you talked with the villagers, they said, "These people are necessary for the village. We have to forget and forgive. We must forgive them for the good of our future." Julia: Let's look at hostile emotions and actions from a world standpoint. How do we begin to forgive as a nation? What would be the concept we should embrace? Andrew: This is a fascinating area. It is an area where we should not necessarily expect to find answers, but rather questions to explore. An apology or expression of remorse can alter the whole relationship between hostile parties. This also is an area where opinion leaders, faith leaders, and politicians play a leading role. The actions of the role models influence the outcome, and there is often a difference between what is modeled and what actually happens. Julia: The mission of your university is to "believe in a world without war" and to "pursue the vision" through academic and related activities. How does having this vision affect the outcome you are pursuing? Andrew: People are drawn by visions and ideals. I don't know if my vision will make a difference, but I am human, and I know we must have vision to sustain us. I have to believe in the idea that there can be world without war.
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